If you are, like me, a fairly recent transplant to the scenic city, you may not know much about Chattanooga Venture or the program they led starting in the mid-80s called Vision 2000. In the midst of "economic recession, social tension and general urban decline," Venture brought over 1,700 people together to create a set of 40 goals for the future of Chattanooga and is often credited with jump-starting the city's renaissance.
Chattarati has learned that a new group believes that the time is right to create another big vision for Chattanooga's future. The new visioning initiative, likely to be called Stand, is currently in the idea development process. In its initial phase, Stand hopes to collect surveys from as many as 25,000 local residents to help guide a collaborative vision for the city's future.
Please continue reading for new updates from Josh McManus...
The team working on Stand is a who's who of names from the Chamber of Commerce, RPA and UTC, as well as, you guessed it, the local arts and design community. We have also learned that these individuals have agreed to come to the table solely as citizens of Chattanooga, not on behalf of these organizations.
Updated: We spoke with Josh McManus this morning, who provided the following corrections from our original source:
- CreateHere is not leading the Stand initiative, and it is possible that a completely new organization may be set up to facilitate the process.
- Josh McManus was not responsible for choosing the Stand team, but was asked to participate in the process. His role has become more hands-off as the process has evolved.
John Hawbaker
Bill on Dec. 1, 2008
I don't mean to start the comments off with snark, but didn't I already fill out one of these "things we need to do to make Chattanooga super awesome" future vision surveys not so long ago?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are we now witnessing a battle of the vision wielders?
I'm confused.
Robert T. Nash on Dec. 1, 2008
My, my, my...dissent among the ranks of the all powerful "We Know Best" types. Whatever in the world would we po' but proud Great Unwashed types who call Chattanooga and the surrounding environs home do without all the well-heeled self-proclaimed non-profit do-gooders who are so heavily invested in lookin' out for "our best interests"...
John Hawbaker on Dec. 1, 2008
Do we really need more "elites versus Joe Sixpack" rhetoric? I think we all hope to see Chattanooga continue its forward progress...
Bill on Dec. 1, 2008
I like progress, myself. I'm just confused.
Robert T. Nash on Dec. 1, 2008
Closed Circuit Query To Mr. John Hawbaker:
Dear Mr. Hawbaker,
Rhetoric aside, what can you point to in the way of local "elites" (please define same, as I'm still laboring under a pesky ol' fashioned "We hold these Truths to be self evident" mindset) doing anything really beneficial - neigh, substantive - for all the good local "Joe (and Jane) Sixpack" types? Please advise at your earliest possible convenience, and I sincerely hope you'll reveal which side of the equation you perceive yourself to be on. Thanks!
Curiously Yours,
Robert T. Nash
Egalitarian alternating between Heineken and Newcastle Twelve Packs in Brainerd
John Hawbaker on Dec. 1, 2008
Well, this is easy. I don't have to come up with definitions -- you already provided them.
Elites 1. all powerful “We Know Best” types 2. well-heeled self-proclaimed non-profit do-gooders who are so heavily invested in lookin’ out for “our best interests”
Joe Sixpacks 1. po’ but proud Great Unwashed types who call Chattanooga and the surrounding environs home
My point is, again, that we all want this to be a greater place to live, work and play (right?) and that dividing us up along those lines is counterproductive. Let's work together.
At least we can agree about Newcastle.
Robert T. Nash on Dec. 1, 2008
Second Request: What can you point to in the way of local “elites” doing anything really beneficial for all the good local “Joe (and Jane) Sixpack” types?
And don't you live in East Ridge?
David Morton on Dec. 2, 2008
Really beneficial or just beneficial?
Robert T. Nash on Dec. 2, 2008
Dear Mr. Morton,
Have you ran The Numbers on your citation? You know, the debt, the repayment, the cost of fixing the numerous, well-documented and widely-reported problems caused by the accelerated and unrealistic timeline for completion of the vaunted 21st Century Riverfront? Have you read the emails - Public Records, you know - between then Mayor Bob Corker and Davis Lundy of The Moriah Group that basically reveals your citation as an utterly transparent political shuck job cooked up for the express purpose of taking The Wee One to The Next Level? If not , respectfully suggest you do so at your earliest possible convenience and get back to me with your thoughts. Thanks!
Respectfully Yours,
Robert T. Nash
Host/Producer/Reporter
Citadel Broadcasting
Talk Radio WGOW 102.3 FM
821 Pineville Road
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37405
(423) 756-6141 FRONT DESK - HAVE ME PAGED!
(423) 756-1505 NEWSROOM - NOW WITH VOICEMAIL!!
(423) 668-2458 DIRECT TO VOICEMAIL - AS GOOD AS TALKING TO ME!!!
(423) 593-8522 CELL - NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS ONLY!!!
(423) 266-3629 FACSIMILE - WHY ARE YOU STILL USING ONE OF THESE!?!
(423) 622-4627 HOME - ANYTIME/WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS!!!!
Justin on Dec. 2, 2008
I would argue it's odd to try and label this as the "elite" or "exclusive powers that be" shaping the vision for our region in lookout for "Joe & Jane sixpack" when it appears STAND's goal is to see the next Vision for our community shaped by nothing less than the diverse representation over 25,000 citizens or more.
...including Joe, Jane, Robert & anyone that wants to be FOR something, rather than simply against.
Robert T. Nash on Dec. 2, 2008
Dear Justin,
Point taken. Labels aside, I would counter polling 25,000 locals - for anything - is ambitious, if not unrealistic. I likewise think it odd this undertaking was trotted out, corrected, expanded upon and revised in this highly public forum without getting all involved/concerned - whomever they may be, as accounts vary - see above - on the same page from jump. Afer all, this is about consensus and goals, right? Confusion and dissent among the self-annointed pulse takers and unifiers doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it? Throw in the fact those who will ultimately govern whatever functional form this takes learned of this initiative on the back end and I think we've got the makings of a real SNAFU. Or a specious backdoor - and utterly transparent - political move. But, at this point, that's seemingly just me. Take care.
Respectfully Yours,
Robert T. Nash
CLOSED CIRCUIT ADDENDUM TO JOSH MCMANUS: I'LL BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU AS REQUESTED. WE CAN BEGIN WITH CLARIFYING WHAT EXACTLY YOUR ROLE IS. JUST CALL ME AT 423-267-1023 FROM 1:00 'TIL 4:00 PM MOST ANY WEEKDAY. THANKS!
John Hawbaker on Dec. 2, 2008
Hi Robert,
While I'm not interested in your request to defend any specific do-gooders, I do want to set the record straight about the post.
I posted this story, not as someone involved in the initiative, but as someone who found it interesting and who thought our readers might as well.
My information about Stand came from a source who requested anonymity and that information proved not to be entirely accurate. So, I edited the post with information from Josh, a direct party who I had not originally interviewed.
Let me be clear: the only snafu here was mine.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've never had to correct a story you broke on the radio, but mistakes do happen for some of us.
Humbly yours,
John Hawbaker
David Morton on Dec. 2, 2008
No Mr. Nash,
I do not have any numbers handy. But as a casual observer of Chattanooga politics, I'm aware of the many unanswered questions, potential motives, and possible scandals revolving around the Waterfront, and that earlier in the year, the City had to spend up to $150k on repairs alone.
I will note that your original request for a 'beneficial contribution by non-profit agencies' (my paraphrase) did not ask that the example be ideologically pure, free of scandalous overtones, or even fiscally responsible. If that is the standard by which we judge all public works projects, we will have a hard time identifying notable contributions from any entity in the City -- be it public, private, non-profit, or otherwise.
The bottom-line is that if we surveyed the average Joe/Jane Sixpacks, the vast majority would cite the Waterfront as a net positive regardless of the backroom politics involved in its construction. And seeing as how this project was dreamt up in the halls of some of the non-profit agencies you seem so keen on demonizing here and on air, it meets the criteria of your original request:
"what can you point to in the way of local 'elites' doing anything really beneficial - neigh, substantive - for all the good local 'Joe (and Jane) Sixpack' types?"
Robert T. Nash on Dec. 2, 2008
Dear John and David,
You're both OK by me. Skip what follows if that suffices.
John: As a onetime print guy, past and present radio guy and Human Being, I've had to correct many errors of fact over the years. Just today I incorrectly stated the percentage of stock ownership Porsche AG currently holds in Volksawagen AG. The nagging little voice in my head prompted me to do some quick research during the commercial break to get it right, and then I came back, corrected myself, apologized for the error and expressed my happiness to set The Record straight. With all that out of the way, it's usually my listeners who point out when I am am off base or outright wrong, as a big part of my On Air schtick is playing "Gotcha", the beauty of which is everyone can play. I've also been taken - inadvertently, purposefully and maliciously by "anonymous" sources. That said, they can be invaluable. I'll leave it up to on where to draw the line for yourself.
David: Thanks for messing with me. Seriously. As someone who has devoted his life to deflating egos, unstuffing shirts and upsetting apple carts - for fun and profit - I could not in Good Conscience view myself as somehow sacrosanct or above it all. As a child weaned on the Vietnam War, Watergate and Punk Rock, I consider it my solemn sworn duty as an upright free-thinking American to Question Authority. Belligerently and relentlessly, if need be.
If either, both of you, or anyone is still reading this, please accept my sincere thanks. As for what I want out of all this, I am basically seeking accountability and transparency, and if that means smashing a few Control Images, so be it. I'll close by saying despite all the malfeasance, underhanded bullshit and unrealized expectations getting things done can entail, I still believe in The People and The Process, and I genuinely appreciate what Chattarati promises, and - up to this point - has delivered. Here's to democritazation.
RTN/XXX/OOO
Caleb Ludwick on Dec. 2, 2008
Well, at the risk of coming late to the party let me say that I've sat in on a few of the meetings being discussed here, and I have been pleasantly surprised by the inclusiveness of the voices in the room. And I should note that as a self-employed writer who lives in North Georgia, I don't really fit the "all powerful" profile. Although I have had the distinction - and pleasure - of being a guest on Mr. Nash's show (hi Robert T).
As someone who relocated here after the prior process - yet in part because of the results it produced - I've been thrilled to see a diverse group of people come together to talk about what is possible for the region.
We all know that VW is a major win, but also that a simple "Wilkommen" isn't the answer to our entire future. So what is next? And wouldn't it be great if there were many answers, rather than just one? This has been the spirit that I've heard at these meetings, over and over. Making sure that communications channels are created so that any and everyone can have input in any "visioning" that happens in the coming year.
I also get the sense that the doors to these meetings are open. After all, the intent is to throw them wide. So if I am included in this, you can be too. It's just a matter of suspending skepticism for long enough to make your two cents heard.
Like the voices rep'd here, I also believe in The People and The Process. Here's to the building on the past + present, toward the future (cue: raise Newcastles).
Bill on Dec. 2, 2008
I guess the conversation has now come full circle back to me. :)
I am wholly without malice and still legitimately confused. In short, what drastic new picture does Stand hope to paint that hasn't already been painted by the survey conducted by CreateHere?
This initiative seems like a needless duplication of efforts that will prolong progress (the definition of which I'm getting more and more fuzzy on).
If someone in the know could please give us some details, I will gladly shut up.
Best wishes to all and to all a good night.
Benjamin Pitts on Dec. 3, 2008
Two things: First, Bill, then RTN.
Bill, good question. I moved to Chattanooga -- lived and worked downtown -- in 1989, right after most of the original Vision effort was done. For years thereafter, people talked about the process and connected it somehow to most downtown redevelopment projects. I saw downtown Chattanooga go from a place where you wouldn’t want to walk alone at night to a place where it’s almost impossible to walk alone at night, and understood the visioning effort to be a part of that change.
Lately, the talk about that visioning effort has faded. The ideas are old and the process is forgotten. There have been efforts to refine that process and other efforts (like CreateHere) to redo parts. But there has not been a comprehensive effort to redo and retool the whole process, giving the masses the opportunity to speak about anything and everything. The folks who initiated the most recent effort (I am not an initiator, but I support the effort) thought that after 25 years, it was time for that comprehensive effort. This process is much, much more than the CreateHere survey.
Re RTN: I've known Robert T for several years, and I generally find the substance of his questions valid and ultimately -- ultimately –- balanced. He can attack the left or right of any issue from the middle; and the middle, from the right or the left. And he often does all three. The delivery is always sharp-witted, and potentially painful for the thin-skinned. If you can’t answer his questions, you’re not really certain in your position -- or you’ve let him get under your skin. Few win arguments with him, not because he is always right, but because he is skilled at the craft of argument. Still, you can’t dismiss the substance of his questions as rants or bloviations.
No one wants a top-down process, especially not those involved in initiating the process. One the other hand, no one involved wants a grass-roots organization that does not speak about ideas in a voice heard by those empowered by money and/or politics to act. Ultimately, Robert T raises both points by attacking the effort as being driven first, by the powerful, and second, by the powerless. He's on point with both questions. There has to be some balance between the "elites" and "Joe Six Pack". Those driving the process are aware of that, and they are trying to strike that balance, giving every Joe and Jane a voice, and asking community leaders to listen and respond.
It's a delicate balance between the two, and unless the effort were very narrow, it would be impossible for there not to be some dissention among the “self-anointed pulse takers” about how to take that pulse. The great thing is, as Caleb points out, the door is open, and everyone is welcome to anoint themselves and start taking pulses.
Bill on Dec. 3, 2008
Ben-
Thank you for one of the single best comments ever posted to this site. You've not only answered my question, but raised another: Would you consider being a contributor to Chattarati?
There's little obligation involved. Heck, I hardly ever write anything. :)
cmwillis on Dec. 4, 2008
Like so many of Chattanooga's problems--like helping the homeless or bringing the film industry to the region or visioning in general, it sometimes seems like people are less concerned with making a difference than they are with being the ones who made a difference. I am confident that whatever effort builds the most momentum will have a positive impact, but it hurts to see our small community divided on any of these issues.